Mysterylights Group Message 0199

Subject: Buddens earthlight /paranormal beliefs analysed
From: "ozestrange" <ozestrange@...>
Date: 09 Jun 2002 06:27

Dear Mr Budden

My apologies to the earthlight group for the following topics/ideas 
sometimes straying from earthlight topics.
Sometimes one set of reports, sort of mingles with other reports of 
other paranormal/odd phenomena.

I dont "have a lot of rethinking" to do.From the limited 
quotes/limited research/selective data etc you seem to have 
done I think you must be kidding me.The "new" information about 
Collum/Hutcheson is pretty old hat,but interesting.
A lot of people with a limited understanding of aerial light 
phenomena seem to confuse known methods of producing 
light forms,and truly odd aerial light phenomena.
If you think you have it all wrapped up, then please contact the 
following field researchers,who specialise in this 
field and also,unlike yourself, have scientific qualifications.
They dont have the subject wrapped up at all.
Regarding "earth lights",it seems you take seriously, any 
phenomena,no matter how bizarre, if you believe you can 
somehow stretch it into your belief system.
The following is a classic example.
Budden Book:page 80 Eletric Ufo`s :"..a particularly 'high 
strangeness'case in which the witness had come extremely 
close to three earth lights as luminous spheres.She had reported that 
pencil-thin beams of light came from them and 
focussed upon a spot on her had not escaped my 
attention that a continuation of the line that these 
beams made was directly on target for the pineal gland."
There are no "conventional" earth light researchers/scientists in the 
world that would believe EL could send beams out,aimed at a persons 
Thanks for the two letters I requested.Both authors are impressed 
with some aspects of your GUT ideals.
Mr Ring said regarding your GUT "I dont know if you can be said to 
have given a complete explanation for these experiences.."
And Vallee says "However I continue to be impressed by the numerous 
cases where there is physical evidence of a 
disc shaped device that has caused physical damage in the enviroment."
The interesting thing about your grand unifying theories is the 
One, they are not supported in your data.The are contradicted by 
other data,and most importantly,there is no GUT 
theory in any field of science.
A GUT theory is basically a philosophical belief/desire.
And the two letters you sent me stated quite clearly that they didnt 
believe your ideas explained everything at all,as you implied.
So out of about a thousand + researchers ,world wide, you have about 
20,but wait theres more..
There are far more researchers/scientists etc supporting 
Scientology/Om cult etc,but numbers dont mean truth .

Budden 1, What was the methodology you used for your field surveys?

Lets reverse this whole concept first.
Since it is you claiming the terms dossimetric/field surveys etc lets 
peruse "electric ufo`s" and list your 
"dosimetric Field surveys".
Case 1/measure Ians body and room,Case 2/detection of power surges in 
the street, Case 3/Zero Field study,Map examined
Case 4/zero field study, Case 5/zero field study,Case 6/Zero field 
study,case 7/2 field studies ,Case 8/Zero field study

Four "dosimetric studies",all described in a total of about  10 
lines.You can throw around "scientific terms" as much 
as you like,but it still isnt science, once it examined properly.
I used the tri-field meter to measure unusual magnetic fields/unusual 
magnetic field changes.
I do this because I was also trying to find a "clear" causative link 
between field changes/elevations etc and video
 /photographic anomalies.I do not care that you think that 
this "ideal" is  to  "fulfil a quasi-religious need for him".
I am not the one using my ignorance of certain classes of phenomena 
to glide around around them.
I have no psychological make-up/vested interests etc in sticking to a 
rigid/mechanistic/selective ideal.
For further criticsim of your "dosimetric studies"/claims etc try

Budden:"You grossly underestimated my following,"
The  statement above is  religious/cult terminology.
My belief is that some "paranormal" phenomena may be either 
creating/or being aided by the magnetic fields in question.
You quote Reiter`s work extensively,but fail to point out that ALL 
his conclusions about his own research are the 
complete opposite of your conclusions about his own work.

I notice that you mis-understood Rings work/conclusions  as well.
Budden:page 203-"...whereby they are able to shut out unpleasant 
realities by the construction of a powerful and stable
 inner fantasy life."
Ring:"...they also come to develop an extended range of human 
perception beyond normally recognised limits""
Ring"..But they are apparently already sensitive to nonordinary 
Ring uses the term "imaginal",page 219.Ring:"not as something 
unreal,but as something objective self existent"
Ring:"I must emphasise that we are not talking about the stuff of 
fantasy or imagination as these terms are generally 
used today".
Ring is clearly talking about something other than mere "inner 
fantasy life".

Budden2  If you do not accept my discoveries about the CE4 
experience, what do you think is their explanation?

First lets reverse this,<again>Your reasons for the figures are 
Budden book/"..if the body is irradiated for an extremely prolonged 
period with an artifically produced will 
be registered by the body as being not of this earth, and the literal 
translation of this would surely be 
Budden book:"however,it must be stated that the precise trigger for 
aliens abduction experiences per se,as opposed 
to any other depiction of formed figures is unclear"
Thats it?
My "explanation".I have no "explanation" for them.I have ideas,like 
you,but I dont confuse vague ideas/mixed with a 
selective bias/slim understanding of the phenomena =3D 
Buddens "knowledge".
My ideas about the  figures are based around the work/books of 
Harpurs'Daimonic Reality",which deals with the 
historical similarities between todays "aliens" and yesterdays 
demons/angels etc.
The books of Little"The Archetype experience"+People of the 
web"+Grand Illusions".
Basically, I believe that most of the "real" CE4 experiences 
are "leakages" of archetypes from ?, into our reality.
Now before you get excited,look up the original papers by Jung on 
Then there are other CE4 cases that are more difficult to 
explain.Cahill case in Victoria with multiple cars/witnesses
And the Koury case with bizarre dna sample left over.
Also,the Nobel prize winner in chemistry Kary Mullins on page 
131 ,"Dancing Naked in the Mind field" recounts a CE4 
experience.Also the book by Elkin "aboriginal  men of high degree" 
1945,has numerous reports of figures encountered 
by aboriginals with the figures placing crystals inside their 
bodies.Sort of reminds me of "aliens inserting probes"
but anyway..
Also try reading "Black Elk",William Lyon.This deals with American 
Indian encounters with "figures". 
I didnt even bother asking about the tens of thousands of reports 
of 'figures" that preceded emf pollution.
Also try the works of DMT researchers/scientists McKenna/Rick 

3. What is it exactly about the TriField meter that it does not do 
that you think it should do?

I think it is too inexact.It is not a scientific instrument.Here is a 
simple way to tell if something is a scientific 
instrument.1/It gives precise readings ie a readout.2/it can be 
calibrated 3/it is used by REAL scientists in real 
field studies 4/Its "results"  are  used in published papers, in any 
mainstream academic paper.
The trifield fails in all 4 areas.
Sort of tears the old "perhaps Williams needs lights and beeping 
bulbs" sarcasm to shreds doesnt it tiger.
I noticed you used a spectrum analyser with no results which is 
Also,you also seemed to have judged the tri-field on the fact that it 
came with 3 A4 pages of technical data,therefore its 
a scientific device.
My video recorder comes with about 10 A4 pages.

Budden:You ask me how the Electromagnetic Pollution Approach could be 
shown to be false. This is actually self-evident 
from the exposition of it in my book"ElectricUFOs". Just reverse all 
of the primary parameters I have set out.

The above comment sounds reasonable.Ie Popper/Kuhn etc.It means that 
Budden accepts that if the opposite of his 
predictions could be found ,then his theory is wrong.
But,then this appeared.
Please note the last line.

Budden post:So let me state here and now, for Mr Williams benefit, 
that the parameters I predict for such experiences 
as =D2alien abductions=D3, are robust and physical, and have been found 
to be in close association with these experiences. 
This statement should be absorbed before any assumptions are then 
made about what such factors may mean. Simply,they 
are there in every genuine case, whatever they may mean.Any account 
of an alien abduction experience that does not 
display these parameters IS A HOAX."<My italics>

Real science makes a hypothesis,and accepts that if their is a 
failing in the predictions etc ,there is a problem.
Thats the difference between science and your ideas.

Budden Post:"He does not seem to understand what the term parameter' 
The word 'characteristic' could be used instead, or 'aspect' 
or 'factor'."

Please read page 25 of your own book for my definition of parameters, 
ie,Budden: "Primary parameters:In conclusion,investigators in the 
field should search for the primary PARAMETERS
which are associated with these EM induced consciousness 
effects...The following is a list of primary PARAMETERS."

The 25 listed "questions" implying increased prediliction 
to "paranormal" claims/events etc are to all encompassing.
Here are some examples.With another 8 on page 83.
Thats 33 characteristics one can look for in an individual.

Number 2/Are you sensitive to cigarette smoke
Number 5/Are there foods/drinks that you either avoid or consume 
large amounts of.
Number 6/did you have a happy childhood ?
Number 7 Do you ever have hairs on your body stand on end,feel 
suddenly cold or overheated,experience tingling or
Number 19/Do you have periods where you lose all concentration.
Number 25/Are there any of the following features near your home:a 
quarry,radio mast,power lines,reservoir,HILL,
military base,tv /radio station,radio ham
Budden: post number 2/ "Not all 25 PARAMETERS (listed on page 28 
of "Electric UFOs")were present in every case, but
 the core ones were,"
Budden: page 28 "Some people just do not have the information which 
is requested,or may not answer truthfully for 
various reasons."

So,the "parameters" define the case,but not really,also we have 
people who  give the "wrong" answer to what we(Budden)
 wanted.Therefore they are lying.And the final ,if they do not 
display these parameters they are a hoax.

Budden Book:"Use Of Controls.Over 50 subjects were selected on the 
basis of the exclusion of identified hotspots,ie 
they were not subject to EM polllution and did not live in locations 
with raised levels of time varying fields.Also none had experienced 
an MEE....Results showed that EH had not developed in the control 
group,who did not expereince formed figures or alien abduction..."

Control groups information was the clincher in all of this,yet 9 
lines are devoted to this "information".
Were 50 houses actually visited/measured etc.Of course not!
Normal epistemological data etc always has slight deviations in it.
But none in this.!

Budden post "I must begin to address this suggestion by Mr Williams 
by stating at the outset that "paranormal" 
events do not exist at all."

"paranormal" events exists Albert,its just that science hasnt learnt 
to explain all of them yet.

Budden:"So in effect, because of this continual process 
where "paranormal" events become understood and "normalised" 
scientific investigation and research"

Please read your own book

"Budden...a distinction has been made between endogenous 
hallucination,ie imagery originating from the nervous 
system of the experiencer,and PLACE MEMORIES,which have been 
described as 'recordings'imprinted in the fabric of the
 building.Such "recordings" have been said to have been imbued into 
the enviromental water of the location,..."page 152

1/Lets cut straight to the chase.These "place memories" are a 
paranormal event.There is no need to obfuscate with 
mindless semantics about this.
No sceptics groups anywhere in the world accept the 
above "exclamation" for a haunting report.
You now advocate part of the belief system,of the very group you 
Zero evidence is supplied to back up this idea.Budden uses a 
collection of hypotheses to suggest possible mechanisms.
But there is a problem with this idea as well.
In many cases(as Budden is aware>the apparition reacts to the 
presence of the observer.Budden uses an example on page 58.
Budden "..The figure turned to look at him,and then walked away 
through the closed door.."
Now if Budden is allowed to make  points using  anecdotal 
reports,<which for the sake of the argument we accept>then 
the reverse is also true.
Report 1,from the authors files.
Michelle watched the blue apparition appear in the hallway,she rubbed 
her eyes in disbelief,when she looked again,the
 blue apparition was clearly the figure of a young boy,she rubbed her 
eyes again<she had not been asleep>.The figure was right in front of 
her.Then the boy raised his hand to shake as if he wanted to shake 
Michell`s hand.She hid her face in her hands,and when she looked up 
the figure had vanished.3 months later,she learnt that a small boy 
had died in that very house.
Report 2,from the authors files.
Sharon and David Moss were eating lunch with a guest,a male figure 
walked passed them eating,,looked at the individuals 
present and then  turned a corner of the house.The guest thought the 
figure was of a real person. 
Report 3

Port Arthur Prison.Numerous visitors to the old prison have 
complained about the behaviour/language of the staff 
dressed in historical gear.The "staff members" had reacted to the 
movements of the visitors ,and sometimes sworn at
 them.Problem being, that until recently,the place HAD NO STAFF 
A phone call to Port Arthur administration centre can clarify the 
above  reports.
Now this is the main problem of GUT, ie,Grand Unifying Theories.
They must explain ALL cases.
The probability that  ALL cases that dont fit Buddens theories, being 
false/lies etc is  zero.
It only takes ONE case,world wide,in the whole of human history,and=20 
bang goes the theory.
It doesnt require a great skill in induction/deduction to work that 
one out.!
But wait,there`s more.
2/EVP,Electronic Voice Phenomena.
This is the recording of voices onto audio tapes.Now the common 
answer is that the tape deck is acting as a radio 
pickup device.But the problems is this.What happens if groups Like 
PYe Electronics,ex-NASA contractors etc use 
3/Some crop circles.
Now before you get too excited,just for this example,I am referring 
you to a crop circle fakers
 page,and then you can see all the reports by sceptics,0f odd 
phenomena they are experiencing.
4/PK results/research."Sorrat"John Richards,1982+"The Scole 
Experiment"Grant and Jane Solomon 1999+"Conjuring up 
Phillip",Owen and Sparrow,"The Conscious Universe,by your friend Dean 
5/Aerial light /religious phenomena,"Fatima Prophesy" Stanford 
1987,with photos of  "shared hallucinations"/government
 reports on the phenomena.
6/Animal Mutililation,"Enter the Valley"+"The Mysterious 
Valley".Chris O`Brien.The suggestion that it is an 
"electric arc" that is doing all the picking up of animals,dropping 
them,draining blood etc is just truly bizarre.
7/Near Death Experiences"The Omega Project,by Ring+"The Truth in the 
light" by Fenwick
8/Physic aspects some Ufo encounters"Ufo Dynamics"Schwarz
9/Discoidal ufo`s,
Budden: "through the EM Pollution Approach, e.g. alien abduction 
experiences, "hauntings", 
poltergeists, SOME UFO`S"
The above implies you admit that not all ufo`s can be explained by 
your GUT theories.<let alone any ufo`s.
And of course the Vallee letter you sent me, validated this.You 
realise the data to 
support "genuine" discoidal ufo`s are to complex/voluminous etc,thats 
why class them as "some ufo`s",a wise move.!
10/Some earth light phenomena.Yes,some earth light/geological 
connections/response setc are easily explained.
But not all of the phenomena is.
11/Photo/video anomalies associated with "haunted" 
areas.Probably<when talking about Film>a alot of the phenomena is
 UV related as film is UV sensitive ,outside human vision.
There are thousand of sites like the above one.Yet not a peep in the 
book about even one anomalous photo.
How come? 
12/Visions/experiences induced by Mirrors etc,ie,the work of Dr 
Raymond Moody,"Reunions".

I have just moved to Tasmania ,speak to you soon.


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