From sean@... Thu Mar 22 08:04:24 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: sean@... X-Apparently-To: mysterylights@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41293 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 14:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 14:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 14:56:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 14:56:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 14:56:27 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:56:27 -0000 To: mysterylights@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.50 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 80.3.64.9 From: "Sean B. Palmer" Subject: Re: James Motley's Notes to the Canwyll Corph X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=264160903; y=kWDUq0sf3mtKvBsLJbjXF3ikmbEky-J-syGa3hxIn2D-c20YLDZWwQ X-Yahoo-Profile: sean_b_palmer --- In mysterylights@yahoogroups.com, jp_hailey@... wrote: > I live about 25 miles from the general Rhondda area, its too > long a main river to know which tributary he refers too... Yeah, after I sent that message I went looking on an Ordnance Survey map for the Rhondda Fawr, and pretty much gave up on the map front when I saw the length. But I did find some more documentary evidence: someone quoting from the same Rev. Edmund Jones talks about a sighting of a cannwyll gorff in "Llanboydi", which I take to be Llanboidy. Sadly, though, that's in Carmarthenshire, quite close to the western border with Pembrokeshire--nowhere near the Rhondda area. The same author, this time not quoting the Rev. Jones, talks about "Caerlleon" too, which is probably Caerleon by Newport, so a little closer but still not a tributary valley of the Rhondda Fawr as far as I can tell from the map. If you do manage to ask in a local museum, that might be far more helpful; let us know how you get on! I also did a bit of poking around with respect to names, especially trying to work out how to spell "cannwyll gorff" correctly. That's definitely the modern spelling, but "canwyll gorff" with one "n" seems to be an acceptable variant. In the archives, there are dozens of variants though... it's always funny watching English authors trying to get to grips with Welsh. (I'd provide a lot more citations and details were it not for the fact that Google Books, my main source for all this stuff, is playing up at the moment, as it often does.) I also found another snippet of information about Welsh nomenclature that I've added to my wisp page, though I somewhat suspect it may refer to star shot rather than wisps: [[[ E.G.R. in Notes and Queries (2nd S. No 10, Mar. 8, 1856) quotes from Lewis's Welsh-English Dictionary (Carmarthen, 1805) thus: "Hudlewyn. An Ignis fatuus. Will with a wisp, &c. Will with a wisp is more frequent in places unctuous, marshy, and abounding in reeds. They haunt burying-places, places of execution, and dunghills. Some that have been catched consist of a shining viscous matter, like the spawn of frogs, not hot, but only shining; so that the matter seems to be phosphorous, raised from putrefied plants or carcases." In Daniel Silvan Evans's An English and Welsh dictionary from 1858, he has the following entry (p.94): "Ignis fatuus, s. (Ll.) ellylldan, hudlewyrn, hudlewyn, llewyrn, malldan, t=C3=A2n ellyl, t=C3=A2n llwynog". ]]] - http://inamidst.com/lights/wisp/ Nice to hear from you, Paul! Cheers, -- Sean B. Palmer http://inamidst.com/lights/