From magicalnexus@... Mon Jul 05 14:15:46 2004 Return-Path: X-Sender: magicalnexus@... X-Apparently-To: mysterylights@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63122 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 21:15:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 21:15:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web50807.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.38.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 21:15:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20040705211527.91762.qmail@...> Received: from [67.118.121.6] by web50807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 14:15:27 PDT Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 14:15:27 -0700 (PDT) To: mysterylights@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005d01c46299$4d18b640$69dbef04@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.190.38.116 From: Magical Nexus Subject: Re: [mysterylights] Re: Earthlights X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=166743352 X-Yahoo-Profile: magicalnexus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I apreciate the documentation, Ronald. I think I am trying to address the larger issue of the failure to apply full on science to these phenomena, first. I have been involved in ALP research with Erling Strand and other leaders in the field. To the extent that they can apply science, limited by funding and a larger "brain pool", they have come away with some of the basics of documenting the phenomena. However, many questions that could be answered by science are as yet unresolved. For example, the effects of microwave energy on the human nervous system have long been documented. These effects, depending on the frequency and intensity of the signal. can create a sense of altered perceptions. Paranoia, the sense of unseen presences, the idea that one is some how related to events taking place around them, etc.... have all been documented as side effects of ALP observations. Has the microwave effect been ruled out or even tested at sites where ALP appear? No. We know very little about emanations from these light phenomena. Same goes for Persinger and magnetism...we haven't detected enough magnetic data to consider trying to link magnetic properties to human physiology. Can we speak with authority on physical aspects of ALP manifestations like ULF and VLF detections, only superficially. Can we connect ALP manifestations with tectonic events or geological sources, only in some circumstances with some kinds of ALP but not all. Can we rule out unusual or unpredicted behaviors of known em energies, no - not at all based on the few white papers on the subject... I don't doubt that Persinger and others have some perspectives on this issue but I don't think enough science has been done to warrant handing the phenomena over to fringe science, yet. For some of us who have been exposed directly to certain phenomena like UFO at very close range, those discussions seem dead-end on the face of it. Science has come nowhere near the truth in the matter of UFO appearances and for some of us, microwave or magnetic influence on human physiology would be the last place we would go for answers....given what I have seen, it isn't even a remote possibility that UFO manifestations are an issue of physiology and I have the support of some very well qualified people who are perceptual psychologists and aviation human factors experts to back me up - with solid research arrived at through the best of reasons....but the data must be developed and the work must be done in a logical and sequential fashion if my simple opinion based on experience is to be moved into the realm of scientific fact. This discussion began with the observation that we can't determine that the phenomena are intelligent or that they are natural. It is not a logical next step to embrace the un-natural or intelligent matter as defacto, nor is it logical to embrace esoteric physics as an explanation for these qualities of the manifestations. Knowledge has to progress in a documented and logical fashion. There could be dozens or even hundreds of steps before we arrive at the door of "subtle energy" or "psychic influence". The first steps begin with thorough protocols involving detection and documentation. This is a huge process by itself. It requires finding and mapping a locations, documenting all known visible light sources, establishing mulitple observations points, establishing documentation protocols related to filming, photoing, detecting through a host of instrumentation, deciding which of those detections are true, analyzing the gestalt of detections, making decisions regarding the next phase of analysis and then executing those decisions. This requires a number of cycles and can last years or even decades. There are no shortcuts... Sure, catch me over a beer when I come in from the heat during a field study and I am ready to explore all the possibilities, but there is a great difference between that and taking the proper steps in the proper order to develop a credible study. Credibility is the key and citing first degree papers on generalities that may or may not relate to the phenomena in question will not get us where we need to go. At some point they could provide a clue and should not be discarded outright, but I wouldn't put one of them down in front of a potential funder or anyone with a science credential whose opinion I value. The only technique I would emphasize is the most solid scientific, instrument based aproach to captures and analysis of the phenomena and hope they don't think I am a crackpot. Magical Nexus Ronald wrote: Magical Nexus wrote: >I think this sort of conversation represents a failing and is probably one >of the reasons mainstream science doesn't seem to want to touch this >topic and probably explains why it is so difficult to find funding to engage >this material....... Mainstream science has explored this subject to some extent, the message I posted stated people with psychic ability can "feel" the type of energy concentrated along ley lines. The below web page reports that Michael Persinger, Ph.D. research on APL's has a psychological side as well because of direct stimulation of the observer's brain. The initial message I posted (concerning the top secret Canadian memo recently released) also stated the US was interested in the "mental phenomena" aspects of magnetic anomalies. The below web page writes: "ALPs display odd movements, emit unusual colors or sounds and occasionally deposit physical residues. When these phenomena closely approach a human observer, exotic forces and perceptions are frequently reported." http://skepdic.com/alp.html Persinger even found a way to duplicate the effect APL's cause, using what he termed transcranial magnetic stimulation he found that subjects, who were exposed to a specific series of pulses from TMS, described feeling an invisible presence as well as other phenomena. The below web page gives more details. Persinger believes that naturally occurring magnetic interference could be at the heart of mystical experiences and a whole host of paranormal phenomena, ranging from ghosts to alien abductions. http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0%2C1286%2C51699%2C00.html (Persinger gathers good data for his research but I don't agree with all his analysis and theories on that data). When people move into areas where these magnetic anomalies occur they often feel various unusual strong sensations (such as people entering crop circle formations). The physics explanation can be described by sympathic vibration, memories in our subconscious are believed by some to consist of structured energy patterns of specific frequencies, so when "power" is applied, by something like an APL, the amplitude is increased so experiences associated with them are amplified. (that's the simple explanation but it also can become more detailed.) Concerning transcranial magnetic stimulation, many people are able to use meditation techniques like kundalini and produce those same effects. That's because earth's subtle energies can be manipulated by intent, so a person may be able to concentrate enough energy around parts of their body like the brain to produce a small localized magnetic anomaly. The scientific reference concerning manipulating those energies by intent can be found at the below web page I previously mentioned. http://www.twm.co.nz/SubtleEnergy.html Ronald Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! 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